Curse

ajsnuker · Jun 10, 2009, 08:12 AM // 08:12

[PvE] I hav a person in my alliance that insists that double dragon is a great elite. But i find it too be very medicore... because in most cases you would want to have that skill to stack elemental attributes enable to maxamize your damage. But it seems kind of stupid becuase in the case you were going to use it for that reason would be you could just bring elemtal lord and glypph of elemental power, and then you could use that stacked fire magic along with and elite fire magic spell such as searing flames (greatest fire elite eva!) to blow up enemies with your fire magic boosted plus the utility of some beasty damage skill. I mean.... would you really want to sacrifice your elite slot just so you could stack 20 fire magic instead of 19?

The only place I could imagine to find this useful is in jq or ab (or sumtin like that) where you could shadow step in and use this and a bunch of other aoe skills to ghetto bomb shrines. In which case you could just go with the meta and use the N/A bomber

So what im asking is for you to give me your opinions on this skill and show me if im missing anything. Because to me this just seems like a useless elite.

>TANKS ALOT =)

NocturnalLunacy · Jun 10, 2009, 08:19 AM // 08:19

But wouldn't you just be wasting an elite spot with SF? Actually if you use glyph of elemental power with elemental lord, you would be taking two slots to achieve the same that DD produces. With DD you use one slot, if you go with SF you use two other slots for the fire attributes. And that fire magic attribute of 1 makes a huge difference between causing 150+ damage and 100+ damage.

Squishy ftw · Jun 10, 2009, 09:27 AM // 09:27

It's crap to me and a wasted elite spot indeed (DD that is).

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

And that fire magic attribute of 1 makes a huge difference between causing 150+ damage and 100+ damage.

No it doesn't.

NocturnalLunacy · Jun 10, 2009, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squishy ftw

It's crap to me and a wasted elite spot indeed (DD that is).

No it doesn't.

Have you used? Properly that is. SF isn't all that everyone thinks it is. Just because everybody else says SF is so good doesn't mean it is. I've been using DD for a while and it has worked perfectly for me. Maybe some of you need to have the right build to use it. You can't blame a skill for being bad if you fail to use it in the right build in the right way. Remember, it's not the computer that makes the mistake, it's the user.

stanzhao · Jun 10, 2009, 10:20 AM // 10:20

its not a bad skill, but SF is far superior. and the burning condition is a major factor too here

the problem with DD is that you have to be near the foes to cause any damage, which is never that practical as a caster. in HM if you run into a mob as an ele you will be eaten alive. if your going to try and say that you can take stoneflesh aura to help then your point about using 2 skills to make 1 effective is counter productive.

SF is just a more practical skill... sometimes life is tough like that...

jaif · Jun 10, 2009, 10:34 AM // 10:34

I use DD in a pbae chain. DD->Bed of Coals->tenai's wind->inferno. Then I use flares or something to finish.

-Jeff

ajsnuker · Jun 10, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

bleh..... if u were using pbaoe wouldnt you already have your elite filled up with something like obsidian flesh (or in assasins case shadow from FTW) enable to survive... pbaoe only sounds useful when farming.

Improvavel · Jun 10, 2009, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Best Fire elite for later NM PVE and HM is Mind Blast.

ajsnuker · Jun 10, 2009, 11:09 AM // 11:09

The only fire elites i would recommend using for general PvE are Mind Blast, Savannah Heat, and Searing Flames.

Archress Shayleigh · Jun 10, 2009, 01:09 PM // 13:09

glyph of elemental power > some shadowstep to foe > DD > inferno > flame burst > flame djinns haste.... KABOOM

Dre · Jun 10, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archress Shayleigh

glyph of elemental power > some shadowstep to foe > DD > inferno > flame burst > flame djinns haste.... KABOOM

this

I always use a skillchain like that one in AB, It can clear a shrine in a few seconds.

Helix Dreadlock · Jun 10, 2009, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Star burst is better than DD imo for touching, obviously

Skyy High · Jun 10, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

Have you used? Properly that is. SF isn't all that everyone thinks it is. Just because everybody else says SF is so good doesn't mean it is. I've been using DD for a while and it has worked perfectly for me. Maybe some of you need to have the right build to use it. You can't blame a skill for being bad if you fail to use it in the right build in the right way. Remember, it's not the computer that makes the mistake, it's the user.

Please post a screenshot of you doing 100 damage with 19 fire magic with one skill, and 150 damage with the same skill on the same target with 20 fire magic.

From the wiki: Fireball does 140 damage at 19 fire magic and 147 damage at 20 spec. +7 damage is not worth wasting your elite over. The PBAoE aspect of the spell does a lot of damage, but the OP's question was for general PvE, and if I saw a full-spec fire ele charging forwards to use PBAoD spells, I'd be yelling at him to get back so I don't have to maintain a bunch of prots on his squishy arse.

Xenomortis · Jun 10, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

but the OP's question was for general PvE, and if I saw a full-spec fire ele charging forwards to use PBAoD spells, I'd be yelling at him to get back so I don't have to maintain a bunch of prots on his squishy arse.

I'd tell him to leave for wasting an entire bar on mediocre damage skills.
Fire damage is weak in PvE or at least, PvE beyond your average bit of Normal Mode.
The armour differences mount up and that 120 damage nuke gets reduced to 60 or even less. Adding a couple of attribute points isn't going to change that.

Double Dragon is therefore, a weak elite. The initial damage is weak and required you to be quite close to your enemies (though it's not too bad), but the +2 is certainly not worth your elite slot.

Searing Flames is by no means strong. It's conditional fire damage and burning. The difference is, SF will deal far more damage over a period of time than DD and provide greater synergy.

byteme! · Jun 10, 2009, 08:26 PM // 20:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

But wouldn't you just be wasting an elite spot with SF? Actually if you use glyph of elemental power with elemental lord, you would be taking two slots to achieve the same that DD produces. With DD you use one slot, if you go with SF you use two other slots for the fire attributes. And that fire magic attribute of 1 makes a huge difference between causing 150+ damage and 100+ damage.

You think you are original? GW has been around for 4 years. There are 100,000's if not millions of accounts/users out there. I can guarandamntee you that if you're Elite of choice is as good as you say it is "we" long time users/players of this game will surely know about it by now. There are no secret builds in this game. So before you start thinking you've discovered something that no one else has think again. Been there done that.

So having said all that. Double Dragon sucks. It's not a mystery. If you think even for a split second that anyone who thinks DD sucks just isn't using it properly. Again I say, been there done that. It still sucks. I can explain why but I think it's already covered between this thread and the other thread you created today about the same damn thing.

Using AB and shrine capping as an example of why DD is good like some poster did earlier still does not mean DD is good. It's just AB is that bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NocturnalLunacy

And that fire magic attribute of 1 makes a huge difference between causing 150+ damage and 100+ damage.

You claim you use DD properly which is why you think it's so good and yet your numbers are exagerated to the point where I don't think you have as much experience as you claim you do.

+1 attribute in anything does not relate to +50 difference in damage. This goes for any skill in game.

And stop picking on the poor normal mode helpless, harmless monsters. They can't tell the difference between a good skill bar and a bad one. They'll just die anyways.

_Nihilist_ · Jun 11, 2009, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

And stop picking on the poor normal mode helpless, harmless monsters. They can't tell the difference between a good skill bar and a bad one. They'll just die anyways.

This wins the thread. Hands down.

To answer the ? in the OP:

Don't waste your Elite on DD. Just don't. Fire Magic is pretty in the fact that it has a lot of AoE, so the armor-reduced damage that it deals (potentially) hits multiple foes. That doesn't make up for the fact that it's really a sub-par Elite.

The three times I would suggest using DD as an Elite are:

1) If you don't have another Elite. The next thing you should be doing is finding out where to cap a better Elite.
2) If you are in AB. Because Shadow-stepping PBAoE Nukers can work (to some extent) there, it's not like AB is srs bzns or anything
3) You are farming, and DD works for your farming build better than any other Elite (I have absolutely no clue what you would be farming, but hey, it could happen)

Winterclaw · Jun 11, 2009, 04:22 AM // 04:22

Until Anet puts in perma-sin raptors, I'd have to agree with the others in that DD is generally a bad choice.

I checked a few big number skills on wiki and if you were at 14 fire and use DD, all of them pretty much increase in damage by 14 points if increased to 16 fire. That's not a whole lot. In HM it'd be even less. Off the top of my head, there aren't any skills I can think of in fire that I'd want to spend my elite on so I can boost them to 16 because of a breakpoint of some sort... and I'm too lazy to look again.

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 11, 2009, 04:58 AM // 04:58

who uses elemental lord?

Searing Flames is really a weak elite. it is only powerful if there are 4 or more SF eles in a team. otherwise, a hammer warrior + 2 SH eles is far more powerful and you have far more energy.

Honestly, even dual attune with GoEP and Rodgerts Invocation does more damage with regards to energy management than Searing flames because you never run out. with Searing flames, you have to eventually stop when GoLE and Glowing Gaze go out of sync. Where as RI + Immolate + Glowing Gaze + Smouldering Embers with a 40/40 set and infinte energy using GoEP and Serpents Quickness and Dual attune is a far superior build than any a SF build. OFC, you can always throw in a MS or Meteor or other skill rather than the serpents.

oh, i don;t know where you get +20 from for DD and GoEP. Do all eles run Sup runes? No wonder it is so hard to monk for Ele nukers.

Catchphrase · Jun 12, 2009, 07:49 AM // 07:49

I like Double Dragon + Burning Speed; people who see me will lighten up alot.

Ferminator · Jun 13, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I liked double dragon more before the update. Awesome damage, it was easily over 250 and with earth magic armor buffs it was really fun to jump into a mob and blow them up in 2 spells. There are better ways to put you attributes up now tho.